Origine du Japonais

[Asiate]

Comparison of Average Korean-Japanese-Thai Face.

KOREAN FACE (LEFT) - JAPANESE FACE (MIDDLE) - THAI FACE (RIGHT)




Average face stands for the standardization of face measurements typically comprising
of more than 20 facial features, and superimposed on a single face

These are of course average. In Korean population, many comes from china (aka Manchuria), and mongolia. The morphological gradient of Korean is thus heavily governed by Mongoloid physical feature.

Japanese, having been mixed with korean, bears similarity to Korean to certain extent more or so than Thai. However, there is also noticeable difference from korean. This must be because of contribution from native islanders (Jomon/Ainu/Rtykyuan).

Note that there are extensive historical records that some japanese fisherman relocated to chinese coastal area (around 14-16th century), and some Japanese features in Chinese may be due to the admixtures with japanese population.

[Sly]

This article is very interesting, good job !
I hope many members will be able to read it even if it's written in english.

Sly.

[TB]

Comparing facial features on such small samples of individuals, through pictures of various quality and origins, and without seemingly objective criterions leaves me rather dubious — on the method if not on the conclusion. Moreover, the idea of a typical face in a geographical area is arguable, or at least seems difficult to define accurately. When I look at my all-french, genetically related family, I do see some facial features transmited along the family tree, yet our 'collection' of faces exhibits strong dissimilarities as well. And that is a just a family, not a whole country. Not to dismiss your approach of the question, but it begs for a better statistical material, doesn't it?

[Jekyll]

Gosh, it's so loooong!

It looks very interesting but i dunno if i'm brave enough to read it entirely.

Thank you for posting, anyway

[Mushin]

Désolée de répondre en français... but my english is too bad!

Post "étrange" pour le moins... autant sur la forme que sur le fond...

Je partage en fait l'avis de TB! (qui lui, s'exprime parfaitement bien en anglais! )

[ANGAKOK]

je dirai aussi comme TB c'est TROLL long

[Shaitan]

Seriously I do not see the purpose of the OP.

First, posting on a french board 20 messages written in english at once (with a bold title) is rather rude.

Second, this kind of melting-pot really means nothing. To put on the same ground a gallery of J-pop guys and references to serious journals like MBE is just meaningless. The issue of the origin of Japanese populations has been settled by numerous scientific publications (on population genetics) in the past ... nothing new here.

Finally, this kind of post (about so-called racial attributes) smells dirty and let me feel sick. It's a just vulgar trolling.

Therefore I suggest an intervention of a moderator to clean this post.

__________________________________________________ ____________

En VF je trouve pour résumer que c'est un gros troll, assimilable à du spam courrier classique. Le tout me donne la nausée car il y a des relents derrière (pseudo-études morphométriques digne de tout bon eugéniste) qui ne sont absolument pas tolérable.

[Asiate]

Comparing facial features on such small samples of individuals, through pictures of various quality and origins, and without seemingly objective criterions leaves me rather dubious — on the method if not on the conclusion. Moreover, the idea of a typical face in a geographical area is arguable, or at least seems difficult to define accurately. When I look at my all-french, genetically related family, I do see some facial features transmited along the family tree, yet our 'collection' of faces exhibits strong dissimilarities as well. And that is a just a family, not a whole country. Not to dismiss your approach of the question, but it begs for a better statistical material, doesn't it?

Back in 70's, Harvard guy Howell made an extensive sampling, and this guys invents the whole methods of analyzing cranial measurements. I guess one good thing about the morphology is that they can use previous results with some biases, so the accumlated sample numbers are usually larger than those sampling made on genetics. Now, one of the paper I posted includes the paper by Brown, who used the Howell's approach.

Please see:

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/brown99.pdf

The first modern East Asians ?:
another look at Upper Cave
101, Liujiang and Minatogawa 1
Peter Brown
Department of Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology
University of New England
Armidale, NSW 2351, Australia
(There are pictures posted earlier, please also see them)

The only point for posting real people's faces is to appeal to the
non-scientist. No one really cares about the what PCA, MDS, or
clustering stands for. But they just want to see some specimen (
by seeing real people's faces),
so here you go, I just tried the best to ask various people and
I feel that is already cross-validated so I posted them along with
my references to genetics, which is my specialization. Morphological
reference was taken from my friends help, so I cannot necessarily
argue on this.

I'm sorry for my failure to quote in French sources, and en francais again.
I realize that this post is rude, but this is nothing to do with racial science,
as it merely talks about the population genetics, and ad hoc justification by
morphology, and discours commun.

[Shaitan]

When you are posting such messages (and I put an emphasize to "the best specimen"):

Korean faces are far more difficult to find the best specimen

.. what are you expecting?

At best I hope that english is not your first language ...

If you truly are a genetician I would suggest you to go back to your work and publish some papers instead of posting crappy pictures along with unsupported assumptions; I am sure there are a lot a microsatellite loci that await you and your PCA (ACP in french) analyses.

[Asiate]

Fig. 2. Frequency distributions of the eight Y-chromosome haplotypes for the 14 global populations, with their approximate geographic locations. The frequencies of the eight haplotypes are shown as colored pie charts (for color codes, see upper left insert). JP =Japanese. Han=Chinese

Only four Japanese populations exhibited ht1 (defined only by YAP+) at various frequencies (also see Table 1). The highest frequency (87.5%) was found in JP-Ainu, followed by JP-Okinawa (55.6%) living in the southwestern islands of Japan, JP-Honshu (36.6%), and JP-Kyushu (27.9%). The ht2 haplotype (defined by YAP+/M15+) was found in only two males, one each from Thais and Thai-Khmers; ht3 (defined by YAP+/SRY4064-A) was completely absent in the Asian populations examined, whereas Jewish in the Uzbekistan and African populations had this haplotype with a frequency of 28.3% and 100%, respectively. Thus, the YAP+ lineage was found in restricted populations among Asian populations, consistent with previous reports (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Shinka et al. 1999).

The ht4 haplotype (defined only by M9-G) was widely distributed among north, east, and southeast Asian populations, except for the Ainu. This haplotype was frequent (60.5%) in overall Asian populations (Table 1). Among them, the Han Chinese and southeast Asian populations were characterized by high frequencies ranging from 81.0% to 96.0%. In contrast to ht4, ht5 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A) and ht6 (defined by M9-G/DYS257108-A/SRY10831-A) were small contributors to Asian populations. The highest frequency of ht5 was observed in Nivkhi (19.0%) and that of the ht6 in Thai-Khmers (10.8%). The ht5 haplotype is widely distributed among European, Asian, and Native American populations and is proposed to be one of the candidates for founder haplotypes in the Americas (Karafet et al. 1999). Furthermore, high frequencies of ht6 were observed in north Europe, central Asia, and India (Karafet et al. 1999). Thus, the presence of ht5 in Nivkhi may account for the founder effect of peopling of the Americas.

Ce n'est pas "unsupported".